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Substantive objections to Donald Trump as president are numerous, but this New Yorker account of his own assessment of vice president Mike Pence illustrates the downside — Pence could be worse. He’d almost certainly be more effective working with Congress, another point against ousting Trump to get Pence

In the account, Trump is quoted as mocking Pence over his religious views and his opposition to abortion and gay rights.


Trump once asked a group of people who had just met with Pence, “Did Mike make you pray?” according to a campaign aide who spoke with the New Yorker.

The President also is said to poke fun at Pence’s views on abortion and LGBT rights. When a legal scholar told Trump and Pence that states would likely legalize abortion themselves if the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade, Trump told the Vice President, “You’ve wasted all this time and energy on it, and it’s not going to end abortion anyway,” per the New Yorker.

When they started discussing LGBT rights, the New Yorker reported that Trump joked, “Don’t ask that guy—he wants to hang them all!”

Trump, of course, has been busy declaring his own Christianity and delivering on policies to prevent legal abortion and discriminate against gay people. But, hey, he doesn’t mean it. Pence does.

PS: Funny joke by Trump, right? About hanging gay people?